Notes about this comparison:
- 11 lightest skimo boots that are mostly suitable for skimo and rando racing but also fast ski mountaineering, and are currently on the market, heaviest being 850g per boot (not a pair)
- technical specs (weight, sizes…) are from manufacturers’ websites and other official sources
- all of these boots (with liners) exceed the 500g (for men) and 450g (for women) minimum weight limits under current 2014/15 sporting rules governed by the International Ski Mountaineering Federation and are approved for racing (PDF of full 2014/15 rules)
- price shows a range in US Dollars in which you are most likely to find that product priced within
» Last updated on September 18, 2014.
[Complete annual update.]
This page will be updated as new models are released or when you suggest a new product either in comments below or via email (please include your source’s link).
Should you find any mistakes here please report them - comments below or via email (include your source’s link).
* The page is administered by Stano Faban and Jonathan Shefftz.
Some Skintrack’s interesting articles on skimo boots from the past:
My name is Stano Faban and as a member of the Canadian National Ski Mountaineering Team I have been fortunate to compete in races like Pierra Menta or World Championships.
With 2 solid months’ training on the new Scarpa Alien 1.0 sock liner, after 3 years on the original black and yellow liners, I thought I’d offer some impressions. For me the sock liner gives more shin protection, though the old liners were fine. There’s no heel rub in walk mode, and if anything, they’re warmer (read too hot for me in most conditions). For some reason the left shell now always lets in more snow than with the old liners, and this causes tight spots at times between shell and liner (despite using a gaiter). They’re also significantly shorter in length than the old liners, so I had to thermoform them with lots of padding around the toes. They’re still rather tight though. The cuff height has also got shorter over time. I have to pull them up as high as I can, but my widening calf means they quickly move down when I’m climbing, and I have to pull them up again before closing the boot for the downhill or they sit too low in the shell and are uncomfortable.
The major downside of the new liners is they’re so hard to take off, and at the end of a long hard race I’ve been cramped up trying to pull the darn things off! The other downside of the pair I have at least, is durability. I had to resew one seam before I even started using them as the stitching was undoing. After 2 months’ use they now have holes on the ankle seam, holes developing in the ankle flex zone at the back, and the tape around the top is pulling off. My old liners, on the other hand, have 200,000 m vertical on them and are still holding up well, held together with duck tape inside a pair of Pierre Gignoux boots. I wish I could get another pair of the old liners…
Eric, my impression is that relatively little has changed:
- La Sportiva has the entirely price point Syborg.
- Dynafit RC 1 is just the PG Ultimate, which in turn is just the Race 400 with a modified interface for the PG Ultimate binding, all of which PG has been tweaking over the last few years.
- Dynafit EVO has a new removable rear spoiler, and the instep buckle has a velcro flap closure for micro adjust like the upper cuff buckle. The liner is totally different – seems like the velcro side closure might combine the best features of the prior liner (i.e., easy entry/exit) and the Alien 1.0 liner (i.e., neither overlap nor tongued). The sole rubber also has a new color, and who knows if it has a new composition – the full coverage though was already introduced for the 2012-13 season.
- Dynafit PDG looks the same in every detail, except for the color scheme.
- Scarpa Alien 1.0 and “0.0″ appear to be unchanged, and only something like a dozen pairs of the 2.0 will be available in North America this season.
Any chance of getting a notation on what has changed and what remains the same?
Speaking of Scarpa Alien 1.0 in size 28:
My problem is that my right foot is shorter by about 5mm so I always have to compromise with footwear – fits one foot well, not so much the other. With my Aliens I had the 28 fit almost like a glove and the left to be quite tight, but 29 size was no option as I was completely swimming in it with my right. So I decided to punch the left 28 and it worked out with great success in a local shop. The warning though is – the material doesn’t want to stretch but once it passes the right temperature (heating time) then it really stretches like crazy and there is not really a way back with this one, so be careful.
Simon, I have the Alien 1.0 in a 28 with my toes *nearly* touching the shell. However there was still a bit too much volume for my foot and I was getting heel lift. I popped in a second very thin (16g) insole below my thermoformed ones in the inner and it made all the difference. Now I have no heel rub problems at all and the inner fits like a glove. My (second pair of) old overlap inners have now had it so I’m going to have to get some of the new sock liners, and time will tell how they compare.
Thanks!
Man, this Skintrack community rocks!
Hi Roeske,
Seems like Jonathan and I agree as I emailed you similar thoughts
Let us know what you chose and how it worked out
Hey Jonathan,
Thanks! I am planning to use an overboot like those made by 40 Below. I just got a rash of these boots in the mail today that I’m gonna try on and send most back… Hoping I pick the right one!
Roeske, both of these boots are if anything *too* warm for my feet, but that’s moving fast in winter New England and late-spring/early-summer PNW.
For truly cold weather mountaineering, I suspect that only solution is to size up a full shell and then stick in a thicker/warmer liner — probably something from Intuition’s extensive line-up.
I also suspect that your only model option is to the 2013-14 Scarpa Alien (“0.0″) with the internal gaiter, as the Dynafit EVO & PDG might let in too much snow, and using the proprietary gaiter with the Alien 1.0 might be too much an annoyance in that kind of environment … unless a non-proprietary gaiter would work with either the EVO/PDG or Alien?
For those of you who have tried some of these boots, can anyone give me advice on which you think would be best for cold-weather climbing? I’m planning a speed ascent of Denali and I want a boot that will ski well, but then excel when I toss the skis and hike up the rest. Thanks!
Simon and Jonathan,
Haven’t fully read your comments so just a general side note – by ISMF rules you are not supposed to alter your equipment at all (apart from some fitting adjustments). So just keep that in mind when doing mods and want to compete in sanctioned races.
Jonathan, thanks, I never thought to strip the cuffs down. I removed the tongue and rear cuff reinforcing patches and this allows the carbon cuff to overlap enough to close correctly. In a carpet test, the boot fit now feels correct, with heel lift eliminated, an all round snugger fit and all for a weight increase of only 36g per boot. With the reinforcing removed there is still more cushioning than the stock liner which will remove some of the harshness due to the stiffness in ski mode. Also there is no noticeable difference in the ankle rotation. So I am very happy, now I can’t wait to try them out.
Thanks again,
Simon
Simon, maybe I saved you money, but I still haven’t solved your problem!
Looking back at this:
” I did try the 27 race liners from the old DyNa, this gave an almost perfect fit, however the cuff is too thick for the carbon collar to overlap correctly.”
- My suggestion is to have a boot fitter remove some additional foam from the upper cuff. Or if you’re handy, you can do it yourself with a surgical scalpel. I’ve had this done to the toe box of my Zzero4 liners years ago, and more recently to my Dynafit EVO boots.
- Alternatively, the homemade “bikini” liner sounds intriguing, and will even lighten up the boot a bit, but I suspect that even slight shifting around of the parts will cause endless problems.
Jonathan, thanks for your reply. Your help here has saved me 120 euros. I am now in that mental mind game where I keep telling myself that I should have gone with the 27. They just felt too tight, and due to the minimal liner, you kinda know your toe is touching the shell and not the liner that will pack out. I think the next step may be to experiment with a bikini liner that is thicker in the lower part and a thinner cuff, I may even cut my dynafit liners and sew them up at the ankle hinge. If it works , I will then cut the cuffs from the alien liner and fit some Velcro to them.
Thanks again
Simon
Simon, I briefly tried on the Alien 1.0 with those older overlap liners before I bought the 1.0 with the sock-like liner.
The new sock-like liner *looks* more substantial from a distance, since the padded areas stand out from the areas that have no padding whatsoever.
But the padded areas are still very thin.
I used them several times before having some modifications done on the shell at the heel. I had not tried molding the liners, since I was concerned about botching the process, given how they have to pulled on like a sock. I asked my boot technician about molding them, and he thought that after using them several times, whatever thermomolding of the thin material that could be accomplished had already been done via skiing.
So overall, although I think the new liner is an improvement, I suspect it’s not enough of any improvement to go out of your way to buy them for a pair of boots you already have with the older liners.
Hi, I have the older Alien 1.0 with the super thin intuition yellow and black liner. I am a 27 but had to go for the 28 as my left foot is very slightly longer, closer to a 27.5 and the 27 was just too neat a fit. I have been using the size 27 liners from my F1 carbons, which are a little snugger and give me a better fit in the heels. I was getting a bit too much heel lift with my right foot and this caused blisters.
Does anyone have a comparison of the older liners with the newer 2014 intuition liner? It looks to me to be more substantial. Does it thermo form? I found thermo forming the older alien liner almost pointless as it did not seem to have enough foam to hold any real shape and certainly does not puff out to take up spare volume around the foot. I did try the 27 race liners from the old DyNa, this gave an almost perfect fit, however the cuff is too thick for the carbon collar to overlap correctly.
Any advice greatly appreciated, I would do the obvious thing and try them out, but I cannot get them in my area and would have to buy them over the internet form the Italy.
Great site BTW, I was in the French Alps for 5 years and have found more information on this site than I ever got there.
Simon.
Looks like the ISMF has ditched the 100% sole rubber regulation they were going to implement. That is good news as there were a lot of closeout prices on boots from before they made the changes!
As for speed traversing boots, hard to go wrong with the Dynafit TLT5 or 6, if you need more beef, you can step up to the Vulcan/Mercruy/One.
according to this discussion I found in internetland, the TLT5 is comparable in stiffness to the 4 buckle boots of yesterday, http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/261028-AT-Boot-Comparative-Flex-by-model-*updated*?highlight=AT+boot+comparative , though take that with a grain of salt.
Stano,
Thanks for the beta. Looks great! I see that these are all ultra-lights but I was wondering if you could recommend something for speed traversing out of all the new two and three buckle boots? So many to choose from now. I am used to an older three buckle Dynafit with the wire bails. This has been the tool for the big missions but now it seems time to upgrade. Are the newer two-buckle stiffer than my old three buckle? Or should I just go with one of the lighter three buckle for a bit more performance and they will still be lighter than my old ones. Folks are sending some big lines in some pretty small gear but I am kinda tired of compromising performance. Like; being out in the dark and having to sketch down a slope as opposed to being able to shred it. Still seeking the balance.
the new 400g Gignoux Morpho 400 is popping up everywhere
seems the top part of the bikini liner is now integrated in the cuff?
probably so it can be trimmed down as much as possible?
http://news.pierregignoux.fr/
http://www.skitour.fr/annonces/13672
http://www.ski-alpinisme.com/actualite/2013/fixationGignoux2013.pdf
Jonathan,
Unfortunately I cannot comment on the Aliens’ fit as I ordered both in small size for me (made a mistake). Both Alien and Alien 1.0 I have are 27MP. I weighed them, all 4 boots, on 2 different scales and the difference is not as big as Scarpa claims. Alien 1.0 was cca. 700g instead of 680g, and the Alien was lighter than Scarpa claimed, that narrowed the difference. However, as I noted to Steve I don’t have a commercial scale. But I still feel my weighing shows the difference to be less.
As for fit, I cannot comment… or only say “yay, that hurts”
Steve, we economists would essentially classify this as an example of price discrimination (which is not necessarily a pejorative term, despite the use of the word “discrimination”):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination
Stano, my heart is kind of set on the DyNA EVO (especially since the original DyNA has been so good to me over three seasons, including the first season — before the TLT5 — when it was my only boot for all my skiing), but curious about the Alien 1.0 … what is the bsl on any sizes you’ve had or inspected, and how does the fit compare to the TLT5 and EVO?
Weighing the Alien 1.0 and Alien I can say that at 27 there is not a 210g difference, it is less. My scale is not super accurate but it looks to be only 160-170g of which about 100g would be the shell, the rest is the liner. So you could have a cheaper light version if you switch liners, however, the difference in stiffness of the shells is very noticeable (downhill performance).
Shaving weight:
Steve, I believe too that if shaving weight then boots are more important than skis or bindings, but you need to have a nice technique – not picking up your skis much.
Alien Revelstoke orders:
You can order them with me. Make sure you pick the right size, see above for sizing.
Deposit is $200 with the remaining $300 to be paid on delivery…which is unknown at this time
Gimme a pair of the Alien Revy! Love it! Thx Stano for having done such a great research of to material!
Great Job Stano. I really liked the ski page too. Interesting how both Scarpa and Dyna offer a slightly heavier boot (+100g) for 1/2 the price. Does it really cost double to shave off those last 100g ? I will say though that when it comes to effective weight loss you’ll notice lighter boots more than any other place. I got the Evo’s last year and was amazed at how much quicker I seemed to be able to move my legs.
PS Where can I get those Alien Revelstokes?